How To Build a Business Around a Positive Social Impact
Joel Sadler & Allyson Sutton Sightsee Global LLC
Joel Sadler and Allyson Sutton are the Co-founders of Sightsee a retail shop + coffee bar that creates a sense of fun, community, and social advocacy in Charleston, South Carolina.
Being a business owner comes with its perks, but it also comes with many challenges. You must work hard to promote your business and keep your loyal customers. What do you need to do to remain competitive in the modern business world? How can you keep your audience engaged with your brand? It’s also hard to balance business life while being a force for positive social change.
In this episode of the For the Better podcast, Ben Cash sits down with Joel and Allyson to discuss valuable insights on running a business. They discuss building a solid connection with your customers and positioning your brand's value to the community. If you want to thrive as an entrepreneur, there are several things you can do to set yourself apart from the crowd. Discover strategies to keep your customers loyal today. Stay tuned!
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
How did Sightsee go from a pop-up kitchen cart concept to where they are today?
The unique value that a business can bring to society and the community
The importance of engaging with your customers
How to run a business and promote a social cause at the same time
Building an emotional connection with your customers
Sustainable business practices
How to use your business as a force for good and a positive social impact
Discovering your passion
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Sponsor for this episode...
This episode is brought to you by Reason One, a group of problem-solvers and change-makers who help those who do good, do better. Whether you work in healthcare, a nonprofit, or a mission-driven organization, we help create beautiful, effective experiences for you and the people you care about.
Start turning your meaning into the message and your audience into advocates. Visit reasonone.com today.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:06
This is For the Better, a podcast for those working to effect change within their team, organization or communities. I'm your host, Ben Cash.
Ben Cash 0:17
Thanks for tuning in to the podcast, where we talk with leaders and changemakers from purpose driven organizations and discuss the great things they're doing. This podcast was produced by Reason One, a full service digital agency helping those who do good, do better. Today's guests are husband and wife and co-owners of Sightsee, a local Charleston retail shop and coffee bar. Hey, Joel and Allyson.
Joel Sadler 0:42
Cheers.
Allyson Sutton 0:42
Hello.
Ben Cash 0:45
Joel, Joel and Allyson are actually go way back with Joel, and I think we both of you I was maybe an early Kickstarter investor in Sightsee, right? And in fact, hold on, I gotta represent
Joel Sadler 1:01
There they are.
Allyson Sutton 1:03
Yes.
Ben Cash 1:04
Sightsee socks right here.
Joel Sadler 1:06
It's nice!
Ben Cash 1:07
I got the swag. I had to I had to represent today.
Allyson Sutton 1:10
We almost both wore Sightsee t-shirts and I was like, that's a little too nerdy for like both of us to wear our brand's tees.
Ben Cash 1:17
A promo heart hardcore promos. Yeah, umm speaking of that, sightseeshop.com, if you want to learn more about who they are in the business. So, besides you two being some of my favorite human, and I knew it would be an enjoyable conversation. There's actually something I really wanted to explore with you two. Obviously, I was around when you started the business, and, you know, was an early supporter. But I've seen how you have grown the business, built your brand, you know, vehicle for the community for change supporting other entrepreneurs.
Joel Sadler 2:04
Yeah.
Ben Cash 2:05
And when I think about like, there's a line in your website, like the opening line on one of the pages, it's it says Sightsee is a retail shop and coffee bar that is greater than the sum of its parts.
Joel Sadler 2:17
Yeah, that's it.
Ben Cash 2:19
What do you mean by, what do you mean by that?
Joel Sadler 2:23
Yeah, I mean, a lot. You wanna I can,
Allyson Sutton 2:26
You know, it's really funny, because we wrote that line, I, before we even had brick and mortar shop, yeah, when we were still a pop up concept. So we just, we literally had like, $100, like kitchen cart off of like, Wayfair, something that we use, and did pop ups on weekends. And we, but you know, while we were doing that we like built a whole Shopify site and tried to make ourselves sound like really legit, eventhough we were not even a real a real thing. It's funny to think about how we wrote that. Like, when we knew nothing, we were so naive, but that the words that we wrote about who we are, and the business that we were envisioning are really still so true. And I think have even become more true as we add a brick and mortar as we built a team, as we've grown. Because I think like, operating in a more visual and tangible way has actually pushed us to either make those words ring true or not.
Ben Cash 3:46
Walk the walk.
Allyson Sutton 3:47
Yeah, so I think even from the very beginning, we, we wanted to have a business, a brand, a physical space, that could be a meaningful part of the community. That could be a platform for us to be engaged in conversations that could shape the future of Charleston. Even back then, you know, when we first had the inkling of the idea for Sightsee in 2016. You know, we saw Charleston evolving in a way that really was pushing out a lot of local, retail and local spaces that work community hubs and the types of places that when we traveled to other cities, we always try to seek out like, where were the local people hanging out. So we saw that evolution and, and really didn't just want to be a store didn't just want to be a coffee shop, wanting to be a place that was a special part of someone's day that was welcoming. That was hopefully helpful in some way in creating what city of Charleston look like, from a business and neighborhood perspective. So, I think the original intent of that statement
Joel Sadler 5:18
Well, its funny you asking the question makes me think about it. And I haven't ever really, I haven't really thought about it in this way. But pretty much what's what's on our about page, like starting with that line and what comes underneath in the mission section. But yeah, was written in like the spring, summer of 2018.
Ben Cash 5:42
By Allyson, right? Come on, I know who is the writer in this family.
Joel Sadler 5:47
Yeah, exactly.
Allyson Sutton 5:48
I mean you, know.
Joel Sadler 5:50
To read it, you don't realize that at that time, we hadn't even done a pop up yet. Like it was years until we had a real brick and mortar. And that the way that we were thinking about what we were starting, was already, like, kind of grounded in this future that we didn't, we didn't know how we were going to get there. But we knew why we were going to attempt it kind of along the way. And I think something also to underscore like, greater than the sum of its parts and what we had in mind. It's important. I think it speaks volumes that our LLC name, in that we registered and I think may 2018, is Sightsee Global LLC.
Ben Cash 6:38
Is that like prestige worldwide? Reference
Joel Sadler 6:43
The idea that if somebody thought we opened a coffee shop, they just don't know us that way. And so from the very beginning, the sense like mission, and bigger and and impact was like, part of it, even though the physical manifestation of it was basically a couple playlists and a series of events.
Ben Cash 7:10
Well, you know, it's funny, you mentioned that the rest of copy on the site, the one thing that struck me was, shops must become communities, welcoming spaces where engaging conversation is easy to find as your next purchase. And when I think about your brand now, and I think about your community advocacy, I think about, you know, everything that you're doing and where I've seen you involved where I've heard you I turn on a podcast, there's Joel or Allyson or Allyson you spoke at PechaKucha. Like, like, it's, you know, 125 1/2 Line Street is this tiny box, but the but it feels so much bigger in what you're creating.
Joel Sadler 7:50
Oh, yeah, that means a lot yeah.
Ben Cash 7:55
You can pay me later, for coffee, for coffee.
Joel Sadler 7:58
It feels you're on our shoulders as well, I've been attacked. So
Allyson Sutton 8:03
Amazing how much work goes into her feet on a little corner.
Ben Cash 8:10
So it's so it was so interesting that you say that this was something that you wrote before you even did the pop ups and that you had this vision for it. And then And then, you know,
Allyson, you were saying that kind of you felt like you had to kind of walk the walk and and live up to this sort of manifesto, if you will, that you put out there. Um, I know, like in in Reason One, it's this, umm chicken or egg self fulfilling kind of thing where I know that like, the more that I put statements out, the more I lean in the more actually changes me. And I was not expecting that.
Joel Sadler 8:49
Yeah.
Ben Cash 8:51
And then I want to lean in more, and it's this sort of, you know, so, to that end, I'm curious, you know, from what your aspirations were then to, you know, what you would answer now, why why does your business exist? Why does Sightsee exist?
Joel Sadler 9:11
Gosh.
Ben Cash 9:12
Now.
Joel Sadler 9:13
It's like just just a level of hunger. That Sightsee is successful and we like and so when we're asking like, why does it exist? It's like, what are we using all this great power the really on like a Wednesday afternoon, when we haven't seen a customer in like an hour and a half the question is like, why are we why do we exist, if no one cares? That is very much another reality. This is
Ben Cash 9:51
Totally. But I also look at the eye to yes and that or to yes, but that I, you know, I look at, for example, just the blog content on your website, you know, the things that you've done with City Council for the the bid, you know, for the, you know, the ratio legislation committee.
Joel Sadler 10:18
Yeah.
Ben Cash 10:18
And then just the the engagement you've had. That doesn't feel just like you're slinging coffee.
Joel Sadler 10:26
Yeah
Allyson Sutton 10:26
yeah.
Joel Sadler 10:27
Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And we're not.
Ben Cash 10:30
I don't I don't think that's it. I don't think that's just like Joel and Allyson, on the side kind of want to, you know, support it. This feels like, it feels like you're, you know, your work and your life are one in the same.
Joel Sadler 10:47
Yeah. Yeah, that's such a good point. I mean,
Allyson Sutton 10:50
Yeah.
Joel Sadler 10:51
What I take that question to be is like, how, what, there's so many different ways to run a business. Why, and it's clear that the way that we engage with our community isn't just a hobby, we see it as like, part of what it means to run a business for us. And so like, why is that we see it that way. And I could kick this off, I think about that, all the time. Is that there so this is I think, I need to credit, it could have been a conversation with you, it could have been a conversation with Ray Summerville, one of the greater business thinkers in this community, that I count you both in that category was the observation that like, there are a finite number of institutions in society, there's like, education, and there's government, and other things. But business, when you look at all of those kinds of businesses sector is the only one that has like generative power that has freedom and the ability to create, that education can teach institutions can like direct, but it's only businesses that have that kind of like, rogue freedom to affect society, in a in a creative and novel way. And so that, for me, is like something that I don't want to waste.
Ben Cash 12:18
Yeah
Joel Sadler 12:19
And I think it's a unique value. And I think any business that fails to see the role that they are uniquely able to play in society is right, not living up to like, I mean, not only not living up to the demand, or the potential that they have been given the privilege to like to operate out of. And so specifically, I'll take like a sharp left on this, like, a sharp dive and hope it doesn't, it doesn't fall flat, but like, to me, well, let me kind of pause this one and I'm like
Ben Cash 12:57
Pause do it.
Joel Sadler 12:59
The thing that I the thing that I think is important from that I have to disclaim about this is that when we were talking about the size, the origin story, there's nothing about the brand, or the what you experience of Sightsee, particularly from an actor's perspective. Now, it was like a not something we were into the form, we just, we had an experience, a trigger that really clarified and set the stage for having to step up and ready where we kind of abstractly thought of ourselves as supporting and I will I, there's a difference, at least, and I'm speaking for myself, but I don't mean to cut you out of the for me personally, truly, the George Floyd killing, and the subsequent kind of like, height of the 2020 Black Lives Matter movement, the civil anyway, their social work, civil rights movement, of, unfortunately, of 2020 kind of was a tipping point was a changing point. And we and for me, the things that we always kind of vaguely in support of had an opportunity to like materially act on, and there was no going back after that point. And so what I'm about to say about how I think about doing business in Charleston, is is is reflective of a change that took place in 2020. Not some like conviction that I have always, if that makes sense. And so for me, in Charleston uniquely, the history of Charleston, just demands of any business that is making money in what Charleston has been created is that you are making money from the unpaid labor unpaid labor of enslaved black citizens of its time and to ignore that, to think of yourself as making money that you've earned is, is in making money that the everybody isn't passing an image of Charleston that was built by this community,
Ben Cash 15:16
Right
Joel Sadler 15:16
The feel as though you can just cherry pick that money and actively participate in righting the wrongs of how that inequity was through policy affected over, you know, hundreds of years anyway. So, I think of business as generative. And then specifically in Charleston, it is kind of imperative that, particularly as a white business, that you have the humility and recognition of why it is that anybody wants to come to Charleston, the Charleston place, that there's anything great about it. And that is entirely thanks to the black community. And so I feel that, at least for myself, when I speak, out and act and and motivated in that regard, it is out of like a deep gratitude that what I have is not entirely my own. And anyway, so that's my that's kind of a long winded way of saying specifically on that topic, as a white business owner in Charleston.
Ben Cash 16:23
Yeah
Joel Sadler 16:24
It needs to be part of how you allocate your time and your money. And you're in your attention. And to not just like, kind of take the money and
Allyson Sutton 16:37
Yeah. I will talk on too that, I think I've recognized in the almost two and a half years since opening, that our uniquely built community around what we're doing. And we also I will say that community is majority, white people, and majority white people who feel very comfortable coming into a, like, on the surface very, like white space, with to like straight hetero married white.
Joel Sadler 17:17
Yeah.
Allyson Sutton 17:17
And we recognize that those people are comfortable, that audience is comfortable, like being in this sort of shared comfortable space. And yeah, like, it's 125 and 1/2, a little cottage, so cute, I'm gonna go get my daughter, like, for me, yeah, it's comfortable for me. And if we can start to engage in, you know, some conversations that are uncomfortable, if it's a new conversation for you with for the black community members here in Charleston, these are not new conversations, and they're not uncomfortable, they're exhausting. We can like, start to have some of these conversations and be really open about our viewpoints. And it maybe makes two or three or five other white privilege, folks in our community, start to think or read or engage what's happening in racial justice, here in Charleston, then. And then those people go and are like, coming to city council meetings and are telling their friends to submit public comments. That's really powerful, and not that we're like trying to like bait and switch our customers giving a shit. Yeah, but it's like this I just view it as this very interesting and unique and like, different sort of entry point into engaging in social issues. That isn't like a news outlet or a relative or someone lecturing at you. It's just like,
Joel Sadler 19:14
Somewhere you would expect.
Ben Cash 19:15
Right. Right. Well, I think the thing for me that just to sort of give a specific example was, you know, there was the report on you know, that was produced by the special commission for racial reconciliation, and it produced a really wide ranging report with a lot of detail on you know, economic and social injustice, and health issues, so many different things right about how we can take Charleston into the future and be equitable and you know, reconcile what, you know, the past as well, right? As much as that's possible. And it was a lot of information. And in this day and age of misinformation, I, you know, when there's confusion, people who are against this or want to sow division will grab on to that confusion. And I think what was so what was great about what you did with when that report came out was, you took it. And you know, you know, Allyson with your amazing writing skills, you know, took that thing and bolted down to something that was understandable, and categorized. And, and I know that when when I learned about it, I went and read it, right, it was it was it was there was accessible. And when then when the subsequent city council meetings came up, and people were, you know, voicing support or opposition or talking about and discussing it, providing public public feedback, I was referencing points from that report, or sorry, from your simplified version, because it was so well laid out. And, and, and so it was a tool to help further others in do that, to, to do that, and to educate to, you know, and that was, and that's just one simple example, but I think that's, that's, you know, take the time to do that. And use your, your audience, your customers, your brand as as a way to get that message out into to increase support and awareness. You know, I think that's a very tactical sort of, you know, outcome for, for what you're doing.
Allyson Sutton 21:42
Yeah, yeah, I think about autoimmune issues that anyone can give a shit about in the world, right now known communities, and it can feel really overwhelming to know where to start or know how you can have an impact or be productive. And so, for us, we try to think about what are the skill sets that we have? What are we? What are we good at what's interesting to us that we know it's not going to become boring, or exhausting, or overwhelming, because something in our wheelhouse that we know how to do, and we'll continue to do it. And so writing and marketing and community building some of the things that we've done in the past and society, those are ways that we can gauge in activism that are familiar to us that we feel confident that aren't. Yeah, you know, a new thing to take on entirely. Yeah, I mean, some of the advocacy work that we're trying to do is new, or us in itself, and the like, popularity and what not, that we are constantly trying to learn and better, that's all new, but at least like writing a blog post, coming up with a script for public comment, like, organizing, here's the call in number, like that kind of thing. You know, and hopefully, you form apple by latching on to us.
Ben Cash 23:21
Yeah, and I know that, that those kind of things take a lot of time, right. And so one of the things that we struggle with, in running a business, and also using that business as a vehicle, right is, is just bouncing the things right, because, you know, we make websites, right, but we also have a scholarship program that we're trying to, you know, get off the ground. And each of those things takes a lot of time and investment and energy to your point earlier about, like, you know, well, it's, you know, three o'clock on a Wednesday, and, you know, I gotta sell some coffee, you know, like, how do you balance running a business, which is already hard enough with the time and energy to also be advocates and use that business as a vehicle, like, how do you balance that?
Allyson Sutton 24:14
I mean, I kind of think it's like, a little bit of a best like game analogy checkers, something where you're moving things around. There's a never ending to do list of things to work on for our business. And then feels like a never ending to do list of things that we want to engage in socially or in our community. And it's honestly just a daily practice of like, what can be shifted over here to get done later. And what do I need to do right now and and that means sometime things fall way down on the Totem pole, like tasks getting done. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that we really mastered that.
Ben Cash 25:11
We haven't either we have any, there's a
Allyson Sutton 25:13
lot of time maybe.
Joel Sadler 25:17
Yeah, I think, well,there's two, there's a couple of things. One, like, I can like what you just said, and the idea of like, it takes so much time and you've got businesses run, it truly does have a material impact, like we have dedicated, sit like a lot of time to these kinds of things in one form or another starting, you know, with how many hours we spent perfecting the exact language for a public letter about for Charleston, and you know, everything on it, like, we I completely dropped the ball on filing sales tax, or not. In unemployment in South Carolina, we ended up having to pay like $1,000 fine for higher tax rates, in large part because like, exactly,
Allyson Sutton 26:11
We lose the game.
Joel Sadler 26:14
And like, customerized market, like, there's just a lot of truly functional elements of the business, that it's not like, oh, you know, I don't know how we do it, but we always pull it off. It's like, nah, sometimes we just say, are really analyzed? Or we're not.
Ben Cash 26:33
But do you think that's I mean, I know. There's a well from former CEO of Patagonia who talked about like customers are advocates for brands, because they build in, like, an emotional connection with the core purpose, right. And it's, the business creates value beyond just product quality experience, right? That and that, and that, that's kind of like, that's ultimately what is customer loyalty and what you know, bought, you know, that you you believe the same, that you have shared beliefs, right. And that draws you to brands draws you to things, which is, as we see, in a lot of situations now with social change, and in a variety of ways. People either being aligned with or not aligned with many brands. And so I wonder, you know, do you see, like, is walking the walk also part of your part of what makes your business successful?
Joel Sadler 27:51
Yeah, I can I, I will leave that off, and then tee up, something that we have coming that I think kind of answers that question, but your first thing I wanted to say, just to kind of finishing the thought and segueing into this around balancing, what you know, the, the activism, and and the business is it like, for the last since 2020, which is when I would really like summer of 2020. And we can kind of like the CVV post was kind of the first kind of what you were describing early on about, like you say stuff, and then you end up doing stuff. And that makes you say more stuff. That was the first like domino or the where that flywheel began.
Allyson Sutton 28:35
Yeah and people who don't know, right, he's referencing we wrote an op-ed. Yes, you know, a letter in the local indie paper saying that we were resigning from sort of the business membership of the local tourism hero, and why and, and some calls to action for the prosecutors to tell a more honest story about the racist history of Charleston. And that was really the first like, big statement that we had made. Like up in that of that nature publicly and yeah, paper two so which, yeah, like what you were saying, there, we said it now what do we
Joel Sadler 29:40
and we didn't we didn't want to be. Yeah, thank you this. Yeah, exactly. And we didn't want to be yet another business that made some big flourish that summer and then just kind of moved on. Let's be changed
Ben Cash 29:55
Change their social media thing to a black graphic
Joel Sadler 29:59
Later like going to finish and then move on. And with the where kind of where I was going not to drag it out too much is that when I reflect on it? Well, the way that we have behaved has been somewhat by nature very active, almost like, we have been guided by this dislike. Like, if we see a bad signal go up that we think we are uniquely able to respond to, we will jump into action. So it's not like we're at every protest, we attend what we what we can, but that's not like the best use of our time. But when we see like, people not understanding what is about the boat, then we're like, alright, we need to do something about this. And so with the City Council with this Human Affairs and Racial Conciliation Commission, I won't get like the full background that has been one where we didn't, it wasn't like we sat down in 2020 and mapped out like how we balanced fighting for that business. It's more just like, when that reaches this kind of critical point where it feels like we can make a pact, we set aside time to do it. And it's it's kind of been that over and over again, like the bid is a great example. We did not know about the bid until like, the week between Christmas and New Year.
Ben Cash 31:21
And for those who are not aware of it is Business Improvement District. That's something that thing street businesses and wanted to pass and change the way that businesses can botching you, you don't you'll do a better job.
Joel Sadler 31:41
Well, my short answer is that it like is state sponsored gentrification that creates a pair of government station who has the power to define who is and is not welcome in public spaces.
Allyson Sutton 31:54
I think whenever I said,
Joel Sadler 32:04
Yeah, clean and safe.
Allyson Sutton 32:07
Bells off. Yeah.
Joel Sadler 32:20
Yeah. Well, like,
Ben Cash 32:22
Maintaining privilege.
Joel Sadler 32:24
Exactly. So So I started to drop out. But the thing that I
Ben Cash 32:29
Draw draw Joe, just go ahead its all good
Joel Sadler 32:32
Yup, we have, it's kind of been like, the bad signal has gone up, we've gone out, then we've kind of tried to keep our you know, we've been we keep our Bruce Wayne most of the time, so to speak. And then we got to write something designed something and and now that this condition has passed, we are in a place in which we've kind of established this as part of who Sightsee is now. We like are active is very weird. People would like site where to stay in touch about things. And it's us as like a small business and explicit like activists, outlets. And it's like, why which of these is not like the other, but it's just two we are now. So we're actively having to think about how do we make this sustainable? Because the last couple of years, all the way through February, like, anytime this kind of thing happens has been tremendously on us individually, is a relationship. It's unsustainable. And, and so we're, we're trying to figure out how to maintain that as part of the brand that we care about, not in like a marketing way, but it's like, This is who we are now. But also, how can we sustainably run a business and live full? Yeah, as as of right now? We don't have that. Like, right now, we don't.
Ben Cash 34:08
That's that's the that's your misnomer, right? You think oh, I'll start my own business. I get to set my own hours. Those hours in that being 24/7.
Joel Sadler 34:16
Exactly.There's that can't be more than 24 hours a day. Yeah. But so that and then to bring that all the way around, and then I'm not I don't want to I don't want to dominate this too much. But the idea of like, what you're saying about Patagonia, co-founder is that we have developed this sense of just like you're either with us or against us, sort of and it has made what otherwise would be like a very broadly flat palatable brand into something that like, somebody just might not be on board. And that's okay. Exactly.
Allyson Sutton 34:56
I think that it would not have been made that thought process or started first start a business. So just be with you.
Ben Cash 35:10
Yeah, right.
Allyson Sutton 35:11
Open. Like there were days where people are $75 an hour. All sick? And is it you know, like, this isn't gonna work? Yeah, it literally anyone wants to come in here maybe if like, don't have walked in I would have I am waiting.
Joel Sadler 35:36
Yeah
Allyson Sutton 35:37
Like anyone else I just buy a coffee ease. And now not that we're like doing it and like, you know, much further beyond that are we understand our sales cycle better and like they're really great for us.
Ben Cash 35:58
you're learning how to run a business.
Joel Sadler 36:00
Yeah.
Allyson Sutton 36:00
You know and so now what if you like, okay, gentlemen off, tried to like argue with us about like, maybe this we did not bring it up like maybe this isn't for you like it's not you don't need to come here for your coffee, there are lots of other options that are safe. And we're safe. Or I'm here to get a really great product by brands vary and also, because they know that their dollars are a place that engages
Ben Cash 36:47
Which I think people are expecting of brands in general and I you know,
Joel Sadler 36:53
But we just end to close that out. I think you would enjoy being one of the first I mean, this is the first time we were made public now that we're Ooh, encapsulates all this.
Ben Cash 37:07
Okay
Allyson Sutton 37:08
I did that I'm saying you're either with us or against us. Maybe a little bit. Yeah. Oh, really kind of catchphrase. I guess. Was it your, your create,
Joel Sadler 37:28
I think I'll just say it, and I'll see if you like intuitively, in get you get it. It's feel the vibe or unsubscribe.
Ben Cash 37:41
I like that.
Joel Sadler 37:42
Yeah, that's it. It's like, he, you know, if this isn't your thing, you don't have to be here.
Ben Cash 37:52
I love that. I mean, I love the phrase, obviously, like, it's just, it's well written and memorable. And I'm sure you're gonna put it on a banner, or, or a New York, New York coffee cup or something that I've seen you that you've done. But I think the I think you're I think what you're what you're ultimately describing is brand loyalty, authenticity. And the two of you leading with your passion, right, I was interviewed Jesse Blom from Green Heart Project. And it was interesting that our conversation sort of really landed on this place of like, that. Leadership, and change is all about leading with your own passion. And if you are, if you lean into your passion, and what makes you tick, that others will follow, you'll find your people you'll find, you know, you'll you'll find a following and I think that's, you know, what you guys are are discovering and very good at so.
Joel Sadler 39:02
Yeah. i Well, you know, it's interesting, though, that I think it's a it's a, it's something that I actually would like to ask you.
Ben Cash 39:13
Okay.
Joel Sadler 39:15
So it's one thing for us to behave the way that we do as Sightsee because like, we have a physical place we are there, it's like a more closely tied to the, like, Charleston economy in it. So it is more like incumbent upon us to act. But from someone might have the perspective of you that you don't have no one will, you know, like, it's not like on any given day I can walk to the corner of such and such and see you and talk to you, as you know, and so
Ben Cash 40:00
Yeah, I actually don't live in Charleston I live in.
Joel Sadler 40:03
Yeah. I'd be broadcasting for the Metaverse as we
Ben Cash 40:07
Yes, exactly. Yeah, smoke meat.
Joel Sadler 40:09
But why is it that you would as as a another just like, you know, I would say broadly speaking, privilege, straight white male, take it upon yourself. Because folks that are are watching this conversation. It's been about we have done Sightsee, but you may not know, the degree to which Ben has stepped up, and this whole talk about, you know, recently we rally to businesses to speak out in support of this commission without amendment that you were an instrumental part of making that happen. Yeah.
Ben Cash 40:47
Well, thank you. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
Joel Sadler 40:50
Why do you bother doing that, and like folks that are listening, if you want to experience like, vulnerability and honesty in a way that is very telling, for policy making tune into the last hour and listen to your comments. And I mean, that without exaggeration.
Ben Cash 41:10
Oh thank you!
Joel Sadler 41:12
Why would you do that?
Ben Cash 41:16
Umm, well, you know, I mean, I think back to sort of just the conversation we had about, you know, using a business as a force for good, you know, I think it 2016. You know, I was tired of killing it, the TV and just being pissed off, and, you know, with the feed and all these things, and, you know, I, you know, at the same time, I'm raising twin girls, and a 13 year old boy, you know, and a dog and wife and the whole family thing and running a business, and it just, I didn't have the time to get involved in a lot of community things because I was just trying to survive the core things. And so it was a realization for me that, well, the one thing I do have, that I already am spending time in is my business. And maybe I could use that as a as a vehicle. Right. And, to your point, you know, I think we don't have a huge number of clients in Charleston, we have clients across North America, we work with sort of larger nonprofits and healthcare systems and other organizations, they're, you know, they're all across the country. And so, there's, there was this sense of, well, I can't make a difference locally in in this right. And so, for us first, it started with our industry, because our industry, the tech industry is notoriously you know, there are underrepresented groups that are marginalized groups, they're just underrepresented in our industry, and it's in the problem. And so we started a scholarship program in tech, to help students find a pathway, sort of a mentorship program as well. And we do like, development day and, and all these things to sort of help, you know, foster that. And we did focus that on our, you know, we have an office in Toronto and one, Charleston and so we focused it, you know, our search in South Carolina and Ontario as like, this is where we're, you know, looking, we're looking at HBCUs, in South Carolina, we're trying to do things in community. But I will say, you know, one of the things that you all did, for me, at least, especially with the Commission, and other things happening was and people like Mika Gaston, where I'm, we started to really listen and see if you'd be aware of the local things. And you know, they always say all politics are local.
Joel Sadler 44:01
Yeah.
Ben Cash 44:02
And realizing that, well, you know, I can make a difference in the larger tech industry or we can, you know, that I really have to focus in on on some of the local things and it's in it's where we can have much better impact. And so, you know, when you you and some folks were doing the, you know, putting together the list, it's like, wow, how can I help and my colleagues at Reason One, we're all like, Yes, can we help too and we just, you know, and even other businesses, I had some friends that own Barra for example, and they were like, yes, we want to get bold and she reached out to friends and Lowcountry Local First, and it was just, it's so what I'm what you all helped start, which I feel like I owe something to you is, is that this local involvement. I feel closer to the local community, even though we might not have a lot of clients here. And that building that community feels really important to make a difference in the long run. One word and answer just sort of say I, you know.
Joel Sadler 45:02
I know it's fun to hear you describe all that. I mean, I would just, I would, again, follow that up by anybody listening to this podcast caches this is not
Allyson Sutton 45:16
the same say that, like you would go read the blog post that we put out or like, no, join in join forces with this letter because listening to your public comments, I feel like, oh, I shouldn't have Ben and gotten a script. And be like, what are you gonna say? I like like, I'll throw in some synonyms.
Ben Cash 45:48
Oh, no, I'm just totally stealing out. So we'll just steal from each other. How about that guy? Yeah. Oh, good.
Joel Sadler 45:54
Yeah, I am. It's just so it's fun. Kind of like, as I was saying, it's such a weird feeling to be so inspired by your fear. Right? And that's not because you're such a, it's such a unique sensation. To be like, This is not just my bread. This is a model for me as well. A bit like how can I be on the same level with amped up to some simultaneous.
Allyson Sutton 46:27
it's also Yeah, on that same noticing credibly helpful to not feel like you are alone as a business advocating for social justice and elect, there are other folks joining in the fight, who have similar backgrounds, or similar concerns, or, you know, like you talking about wanting to be able to hire more diverse talent pool, or things of that nature to just feel like, there are other business owners who are aligned with us in this, that we can all work together and hopefully, drive more collective action. And I hope that it, I hope that what we're doing and what you're doing, and like this letter that we put out, just will inspire more business owners to keep engaging this work, because it can't follow on just us or just you or, or just the activist groups. Because honestly, city council and local politicians, I think, start to really tune out the activist groups that they hear from all the time.
Ben Cash 47:45
Of course, businesses commerce and business,
Allyson Sutton 47:49
Right? On me here and thriving tourism here. And so I really would like they're all of the businesses who've signed that letter alongside us, in particular, to keep showing up and keep engaging, correct? Yeah. Like, yeah, you can like give me a call and asked me what we're planning to say. And we can all kind of pass ideas and, and make our efforts even stronger. And that, yeah, others. You know that that letter was like it for Austin Blocks there.
Ben Cash 48:31
Yeah so I don't know, if you're familiar with it with B Corp, B Corp, that'd be quite good. It's there, there is a larger movement for businesses where you can become a certified B Corporation, which is a corporation.
Joel Sadler 48:49
Way back with
Ben Cash 48:51
Yeah. And it's it is it is very we are we've been in the process for a long time. We're still still spinning and hopefully going to be approved this year, sort of this year.
Ben Cash 49:06
what's great about it is it is it's a framework, right? It's a sort of a set of standards by which people can measure their impact on people and planet. It's a triple bottom line, right? Profit people and planet. And it's, you know, how you treat your employees, how you treat the planet, you know, the policies and practices that you have in place, and it provides a sort of framework, because I think, you know, oftentimes, these kinds of compensations live in the marketing department, as opposed to the, you know, the the front office and I think that's, you know, I think what you are doing this without the label of B Corp, right, and I think and, but I think if there are businesses to your point, Allyson, if there are businesses who do want to learn how to use their business as a force for good they can look to the B Corp movement. I think it's bcorporation.net. And there's a B Labs as the independent group that does the certifications and things. And it's a it's a framework. It's for businesses to do that.
Allyson Sutton 50:14
So, yeah, yeah, it's a very helpful resource, even just looking at materials that they have just as, like, reflection points to think about. Yeah. Okay, maybe make some even minor adjustments. What I do for us, like, as a coffee shop, but we use all compostable takeaway products, compost coffee grounds, and that, yeah, there is like, a slightly higher cost associated with that. But but it's meaningful for us, especially living in a coastal community. So that that's sort of something that I was familiar with, from doing a beak assessment and past and applied to our current business model that I may not have thought about. Otherwise.
Joel Sadler 51:07
Yeah.
Ben Cash 51:08
Yeah. We're, we're getting close to time here. But I, so I have two final questions. One,
Joel Sadler 51:19
another hour, hour and a half.
Ben Cash 51:21
Yeah, yeah. Well, the book is gonna come here and pull this off at some point. So I've always been a fan of your, your brand in general. You know, the voice, the tone, the identity, the visual everything and and curious so what what is your favorite brand and why? Just did one interview that.
Joel Sadler 51:52
I so you know, the first brand that comes to mind coming off our, our path conversation, it is gonna be a bit of a surprise. Because in many respects, it's not. But Ben and Jerry's is one of my favorite brands by Yeah, yeah, they, I find it so inspiring that like, such an innocuous universally enjoyed product is just like ice cream in the ice cream shop. Right? primarily by that they will still say things that are effectively fucking beats. And I think it's like, if Ben and Jerry's has continued to be Ben and Jerry's, this like welcoming and biting you see a pint and you're like, happy for you eat it. And yet be legally like, you know, considerately and and deliberately, but effectively unrestrained, in how you eat out. It's like that is inspiring. That's it, that's a model to me. And I would aim to be that big in front, none of it to feel like show. It's not like fancy add a no shade to Nike, they've got the best brand name, and I'm sure, they're like, there are a lot of ways with what they do. Definitely is formative. But I feel like Ben and Jerry's by speaking out does nothing but like, for their sale without relation. And if there was ever like a field of vibrant scribe, kind of situation, it's for me.
Ben Cash 53:35
Yeah, I think it's about the like, there's just as someone who has to make payroll for the business and support my family, right? The vulnerability It must take up to put something put a strong stance out there that where you may lose customers, you may lose business, your business may suffer. But you're gonna take that stance, but just the sheer vulnerability, I think is is what stands out for me in that brands like kudos. Allyson, what about about you?
Allyson Sutton 54:02
They do to just one more thing is that I never I've seen anything Ben and Jerry's has, like said about social justice, racial justice, environmental justice, they also tend to attach resources to what they're putting out there to help people find ways to learn about these topics or know things that you should read or here's how to engage and I feel like that is a big model for us. Yeah. I'm gonna pick I totally agree with you and terms of like a big national multinational brand, Ben and Jerry's is a big inspiration. But I'm gonna go on a smaller scale and pick some of our local friends that are a constant source of inspiration and more, like tangibly on a day to day basis and those are not around K Star our friends Jeff Eric, as a brand as a business have always been so authentic and so intentional I mean Eric started it originally sewing teaching himself he was a coder he's a Computer Science he is not a sewist not so how to cut leather and so it was just me living room and then you know later on was wise enough to bring guests on board to help grow the business and hire team and they out you know they've outgrown one brick and mortar another and they still have employees that have been with them the very first shop that opened years ago and to me that says so much when a brand and retain employees in that way and free to really like wonderful and enriching culture and they built it from nothing they didn't have funding they didn't do a Kickstarter even like we did. They just started it from an idea and now they have Wholesaler Council of the country and
Ben Cash 56:18
I have a J Stork bag
Allyson Sutton 56:22
Product is credible to it's not even just like, people are amazing people product lead so they are like, I feel a little story for a brand and a business with a brick and mortar space that has grown it's very thoughtful way that brings us
Joel Sadler 56:47
Yeah
Allyson Sutton 56:47
A lot of inspiration more like tangibly.
Joel Sadler 56:51
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Allyson Sutton 56:52
Big corporation so K Star.
Joel Sadler 56:56
Yeah.
Ben Cash 56:57
Fantastic. All right. Well, it's been so much fun talking to you. Thanks for jumping on a zoom with me.
Joel Sadler 57:09
very indulgent. I don't thank you for enduring us. It's kind of like
Ben Cash 57:18
Oh, it's all good. It's great. And so sightseeshop.com, 125 and 1/2 Line Street. Best damn cup of coffee on the planet. When when my when Maria and I are like, on our way somewhere. We were just on a Sunday morning, Sunday morning. We got like, we got to have a good cup. We know we can come to 125 and 1/2
Joel Sadler 57:49
and shout out to our entire team. I don't know at what point in the future people will be listening. But on this day we have Arlo and Suzy. Their their thing. And right on. Yeah. And you.
Ben Cash 58:14
Oh, thanks. Alright, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna close with an a steal your line. Feel the vibe or unsubscribe.
Joel Sadler 58:23
That's it. That's it.
Ben Cash 58:26
All right. Thanks, Joel and Allyson, take care.
Allyson Sutton 58:30
Bye.
Outro 58:35
This has been an episode of For the Better. For more information episodes, or to be a guest on the podcast visit forthebetterpodcast.com. Thanks all. Be well.